The discussion so far has followed lots of different paths and people have come up with some really interesting thoughts which I will try and outline in this blog. I also want to give some of my own thoughts on the comments people have made. If any of the ideas interest you come and read the discussion on Facebook, hear people in their own words and then give us your thoughts.
I began the SIG by talking about people's perception of musical theatre. Nicole thought juke box musicals such as 'Mamma Mia' and TV Programmes such as 'How Do You Solve A Problem Like Maria' meant that musicals were associated with having a good time and fun. Nicole also mentioned that she couldn't think of many musicals that had serious themes. I could name you lots but they probably aren't all in the mainstream public consciousness, so perhaps she is right and it is safe to say that musicals are synonymous with good times.
Natalie felt that the general public don't understand the training and discipline involved in musical theatre and lots of people feel what they do is not appreciated for how difficult it is. Pearl suggested that the talent show TV programmes also had a hand in this because they are designed to make you think that anyone can do musical theatre without any training. I think that the general public probably do think it's easy but then is that what is expected of us? Are we supposed to make it look effortless? I think what worries me more is that even within the industry musical theatre is looked down upon. I feel sometimes when I am speaking to 'straight' actors that I have to apologise for being in musical theatre, as if I am the black sheep or the poor relation. Are these my own issues or are they put upon me by the industry? If it is the industry that looks down on musical theatre then why is that the case? Lots of 'straight' actors take part in musicals and often comment on how demanding it is, so why is there the stigma and more importantly how can it be changed?
The group discussed the term 'Musical Theatre'. Rebecca and others felt that describing themselves as musical theatre performers often had negative connotations (perhaps preventing people from reaching their full career potential) and that it also didn't fully describe or explain what they did. Rebecca suggested that it would be good to come up with a new term if anyone has any ideas. We also discussed how things are sometimes called musicals and sometimes plays with music. Jo said she'd seen 'Over The Rainbow' which is billed as a play with music and thought that it deserved this title because of the dramatic content. Does this mean that the term musical would not be good enough for it? Or perhaps it just doesn't give the right impression of what it is? Emily suggested that there was no difference between a play with music and a musical and I think that essentially she is right. There is however obviously a difference in the public consciousness of what the two involve.
My first response was that people should be made to embrace the term 'musical'. There are many musicals with serious and moving themes. One recent one that springs to mind is 'Love Story' which transferred from The Chichester Festival. It involved the relationship of two people and the premature death of one of them. It was wonderfully written, performed and made me cry like a baby. Unfortunately it closed yesterday after a short run in the west end because of poor sales. I wondered why this should be. A brilliant, new musical with wonderful performances but with a rather serious story line. Emily commented that the upbeat, juke box musicals are often the success stories of the recession. In difficult times people want escapism and that is what these things offer. The huge box office takings of these productions show they have earned the right to be there. I absolutely agree (my best friend has been in Mamma Mia for 6 years so I have seen it 4762 times [exaggeration for affect] and still love it) but I do think that it is a misconception that the sole purpose of musical theatre is to entertain. I think it also has the power to educate, change views and push boundaries. It can be art and I think should at times be treated as such. 'Love Story' was a show that had the potential to do this but it closed before most people saw it. The people who like to see 'typical' musicals don't want to see one about death so who is the ideal audience? Is there one? I think there is but, as Emily mentions on the Facebook page, they are too snobby to go. I am talking about the majority of play going audiences. I am sure they would have loved this production in much the same way as they have been loving 'Over the Rainbow' (which is sold out and has already had one extension). Would 'Love Story' have fared as well if it had also been marketed as a play with music? Perhaps then instead of trying to get people to embrace the term musical we should embrace the term play with music. Perhaps we should use it when we are discussing musicals that have a deeper content? Or is this just perpetuating the stigma of musical theatre? What do people think?
I thought I'd also highlight another question that came up and relates to our work on ethics. Rebecca asks,
"What sacrifices should we make in order to give our careers longevity what principals and beliefs (if any)should be ignored in order to improve our chances or is it realistic to stand up for potentially old fashioned out dated ideas and still maintain longevity and growth within our industry?"I think this is a really good ethical question to ask ourselves as performers. If you have strong opinions on what musical theatre should be like and think certain musicals are degrading the art should you accept a job doing them? Is this unethical? I know that the majority of people I know have done things they think are rubbish in the past because it is work.
I hope you have found some of this interesting. I have only highlighted a few of the points and not very eloquently in some cases so please check out our SIG and leave us your thoughts. Here is the direct link to the Musical Theatre thread http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=145821545478191&topic=63
Thanks for pointing me in the right direction to join in the discussion Mark! You are right it is hard to keep track of comments and responses..I didn't realised you had responded to what I had written in response to your earlier blog 'Musical Theatre SIG'. http://markgraemeiles.blogspot.com/2011/02/musical-theatre-sig.html#comments
ReplyDeleteHaving read the summary of what you discussed on facebook, it sounds as if you have set off on a very interesting line of inquiry. I think sadly that you are right about the theatre industry sometimes looking down on musical theatre performers (although I must stress this is not my view!). I think there is a slight perception that anyone can learn to sing, dance and smile but not everyone has the 'depth' and 'intelligence' to act well. Again I must stress that I don't agree with this, and no-one ever puts it quite like that...but I have to say that is the feeling I get from some actors. What do you think? Have you experienced that kind of attitude?
Having said that, as you said, in my experience 'straight' actors who get a job in a musical will often find it's the toughest thing they have ever done and have the upmost respect for the unique demands of musical theatre performers. A friend of mine who is not musical theatre trained recently appeared in 'Me and My Girl' in Sheffield and I know she felt that way.
Perhaps it is true though that there are very few performers who really can 'do it all'. My friend in 'Me and My Girl' for example (I won't put her name as I am conscious of protecting people's privacy) was playing a 'character' part and would admit she does not have the dance technique or vocal range of many other members of the cast, but the same actress recently appeared in 'All my Sons', which requires a massive level of emotional depth and also a very tricky accent! Perhaps there aren't many musical theatre trained actors who could play that role?
I think you are dead right about the tv shows having an impact. I admit, I have watched them but I HATE the way they give the impression anyone can just rock up and do it. On behalf of the musical theatre world I get angered at the thought of these girls training and working hard for years, only for the show to be edited in such a manipulative way. I think the producers like to give the impression that all the girls have all been working on a reception desk and struggling as single mothers to appeal to the 'dream' of the general public that it could be them. Also...it's part of our job to audition, but should a person just starting out in their career be subject to the media humiliation of being tapped on the shoulder when they have to leave or take their shoes off and fly off into the air...ridiculous. Anyway....I am just having a rant now but my general point is...if these shows are ridiculous, they make musical theatre look ridiculous and that is part of the problem with people's perceptions.
I'm glad that you have decided to investigate the training of musical theatre performers, as I think that is where the root of the problem lies. After all...we can only get good at something through experience.
A final thought....as you will know it's tough to get work in our industry. Perhaps part of the reason people view musicals and plays as 2 completely separate worlds is because the last thing they want is another couple of thousand people to compete with! Not a very constructive comment but I think there is some truth in it....
Thinking further on your debate about musical theatre and it’s place and importance as a relevant theatrical form. I remembered an assessment paper I had done during my second year at Bird on the History and Development of Musical Theatre and decided to revisit that essay as I remember similar discussions and debates taking place. I found a quote I used which you may find interesting by Stephen Sondheim;
ReplyDelete“You have two kinds of shows on Broadway – revivals and the same kind of musicals over and over again, all spectacles. You get your tickets for The Lion King a year in advance, and essentially a family... pass on to their children the idea that that's what the theater is – a spectacular musical you see once a year, a stage version of a movie. It has nothing to do with theatre at all. It has to do with seeing what is familiar.... I don't think the theatre will die per se, but it's never going to be what it was.... it's a tourist attraction.”
I think this is the perfect quote which accurately analyses why some shows sell and others don’t. It is their commercial appeal to a wide audience don’t you think?
It is the theatre going audience who ultimately decide what is a ‘success’ and when people have little spare money to spend on entertainment in a time of recession they need escapist entertainment. These are worrying times for all of us. When you have to spend your leisure money very carefully, you have to be really certain that you are going to have a good time and are not going to be disappointed.
As per Sondheim’s quote, if planning a family trip people are more likely to choose a show like Lion King and not Spring Awakening or Sweeney Todd.
As I said before it’s all about ‘bums on seats’!!!
Doing a little further research it seems as is with all things today it is all based on the economies of scale. The cost of tickets are often beyond the budget of many theatregoers and so they will choose carefully what they go to see. Producers and investors are anxious to guarantee that they recoup their considerable investments and make huge profits if they can. Therefore they will take a safe route with familiar “hits” such as ‘Grease’, ‘Fame’, ‘Jersey Boys’, ‘We Will Rock You’ etc that have a built in audience and are a tourist attraction especially if they cast a familiar face from a soap opera or reality tv show. Expensive and lavish productions such as ‘Gone with the Wind’ and ‘Lord of the Rings’ lose money and so investors will not risk a non return on their investment.
Looking at some figures quoted in my essay, The Broadway League in the 20007/2008 season had 12.27 million tickets sold for a gross sale of a billion dollars – 65% of those tickets were purchased by tourists (16% by foreigners). This I think puts Sondheim’s quote into real terms.
I decided to take a look at ‘The Society for London Theatre’ web site for up to date figures in relation to the West End. As a MT performer yourself you may be pleased and/or surprised to know that musicals fared better than plays - attendance figures were up and down one per cent respectively - with escapism winning over gritty realism.
The Top 10 West End shows of 2008, by searches on the Ticketmaster website are quoted as :
1) Dirty Dancing
2) Wicked
3) Disney's High School Musical
4) Disney's The Lion King
5) Mamma Mia!
6) Hairspray
7) We Will Rock You
8) Phantom of the Opera
9) Jersey Boys
10) Billy Elliot
No surprises there then? It is a sad reality that commercial arts can only flow where the paying public allows and investors are willing to put their money.
Emily.
Hi Mark,
ReplyDeleteLove some of your postings – other big stars not traditionally reknowned in the genre of musical theatre who I would add to your list along with Judi Dench are Angela Lansbury, Maureen Lipman and Julie Walters and what about Rex Harrison in My Fair Lady? He can’t sing a note and doesn’t, but you just can’t imagine any one else in the role of Professor Higgins he is so brilliant as an actor (in my humble opinion!).
Thinking further on your debate about musical theatre and it’s place and importance as a relevant theatrical form, I remembered an assessment paper I had done during my second year at Bird on the History and Development of Musical Theatre and decided to revisit that essay as I remember similar discussions and debates taking place. I found a quote I used which you may find interesting by Stephen Sondheim;
“You have two kinds of shows on Broadway – revivals and the same kind of musicals over and over again, all spectacles. You get your tickets for The Lion King a year in advance, and essentially a family... pass on to their children the idea that that's what the theater is – a spectacular musical you see once a year, a stage version of a movie. It has nothing to do with theatre at all. It has to do with seeing what is familiar.... I don't think the theatre will die per se, but it's never going to be what it was.... it's a tourist attraction.”
I think this is the perfect quote which accurately analyses why some shows sell and others don’t. It is their commercial appeal to a wide audience don’t you think?
It is the theatre going audience who ultimately decide what is a ‘success’ and when people have little spare money to spend on entertainment in a time of recession they need escapist entertainment. These are worrying times for all of us. When you have to spend your leisure money very carefully, you have to be really certain that you are going to have a good time and are not going to be disappointed.
As per Sondheim’s quote, if planning a family trip people are more likely to choose a show like Lion King and not Spring Awakening or Sweeney Todd.
As I said before it’s all about ‘bums on seats’!!!
Doing a little further research it seems as is with all things today it is all based on the economies of scale. The cost of tickets are often beyond the budget of many theatregoers and so they will choose carefully what they go to see. Producers and investors are anxious to guarantee that they recoup their considerable investments and make huge profits if they can. Therefore they will take a safe route with familiar “hits” such as ‘Grease’, ‘Fame’, ‘Jersey Boys’, ‘We Will Rock You’ etc that have a built in audience and are a tourist attraction especially if they cast a familiar face from a soap opera or reality tv show.
Expensive and lavish productions such as ‘Gone with the Wind’ and ‘Lord of the Rings’ lose money and so investors will not risk a non return on their investment .
Looking at some figures quoted in my essay, The Broadway League in the 2007/2008 season had 12.27 million tickets sold for a gross sale of a billion dollars – 65% of those tickets were purchased by tourists (16% by foreigners). This I think puts Sondheim’s quote into real terms.
I decided to take a look at ‘The Society for London Theatre’ web site for up to date figures in relation to the West End. As a MT performer yourself you may be pleased and surprised to know that musicals fared better than plays - attendance figures were up and down one per cent respectively - with escapism winning over gritty realism.
The Top 10 West End shows of 2008, by searches on the Ticketmaster website are quoted as :
1) Dirty Dancing
2) Wicked
3) Disney's High School Musical
4) Disney's The Lion King
5) Mamma Mia!
6) Hairspray
7) We Will Rock You
8) Phantom of the Opera
9) Jersey Boys
10) Billy Elliot
No surprises there then?
I think it is a sad reality that commercial arts can only flow where the paying public allows and investors are willing to put their money?